Capture the Flag Maps

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Capture the Flag Maps

Post by Spirit Soldier on Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:32 pm

What is it that makes them great? Why are some maps considered classic, despite shitty looks and out of control styles? Is it because they were the only decent maps out of shitty set (see ZDctf)? Why are map sets like SmartCTF not played?

I think analyzing what maps are most played and why are critical to making good ctf maps that might have a chance of getting played.

For example, MAP14 of idl2010/2011

This map is a personal favourite of mine because of possibility of complete suppression in the map, the fact that bases are extremely close together and this makes for very heavy fragging, and intense amounts of action.

In contrast, a map that I fucking hate is 08. Because of so many ways to get the flag, you really have to be on your toes, but even a slightly skilled RJ'r can really fuck you over in 3 v 3 or even 4 v 4 matches. Maps that utilize RJing really break a balance imo.

Suggestions, ideas, comments, go here.

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Re: Capture the Flag Maps

Post by Fluffles on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:42 am

I honestly think nearly every CTF map out has potential of being a decent map, just requires effort from both sides to understand the tactics of each. I hate it when people just instantly say a map is shit because they dont wanna bother learning it. But then alot of people like to stick to the same maps over and over because more competition comes from perfecting a map. Map08 I honestly dislike for the same reason for you the whole rocketjumping business but it's part of the map now and has to be done or you'll be crap at the map.

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Re: Capture the Flag Maps

Post by Anna on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:23 pm

Here is what I think makes a great CTF map:

One, is for the map to be made for 4v4 or less. If the map is too big, people will definitely not play it much, since it's such a bore playing huge maps. You have a hard time getting all the way to the flag and back, and it can be incredibly hard to find someone with the flag who's hiding (See Map11).

Two, intersect the different routes of the map. If there are two different routes, cross them or make them defendable from the other. If they are too seperate, then the defenders will have no choice but to follow the flag runner or try to get to the enemy base before the runner using the opposite route. Also make sure there is more than one way in and out and across the map. One route makes it too generic and much like TDM. (See map26 for a good example of intersections.)

Three, don't give a base more than 4 entrances/exits, or make the base too small to defend. Maps like 06, and 24 are examples of this and you can tell because it's a huge battle of returning the flag and keeping it returned. People tend not to pick these maps often. On the flip side, don't make a base too easy to defend or have only one exit. A map like 07 shows this, and you can tell by the long absences of a flag being taken. Maps like 14 are partially exempt because of the very short run distance.

Four, small tip; Make it easier to access SSG. Maybe for pros this isn't a big deal, but if you want the noobs and SSG addicts to pick your map more often, make it a spawn weapon. And don't make it too difficult for defenders who respawn to have a second chance at returning the flag. This is seen in map03 and map05.

Five, give your map some height difference and maybe SOME trick routes, like the map26 sr50 jump and the map02 rocket jumps. Some horrible maps are map23 and map03 because of the flat, simplistic zombie-running routes that are placed.

Six, don't make things too open; the bigger the map the worse open areas are. Map21's base is incredibly big and makes things mostly about SSG dueling all the way to the flag. And that's a long time.

So those are my main tips, but I've seen that small, compact maps always see more action than big ones. And making things smooth for running is also a good idea (No one wants to keep bumping into walls, trees, cielings...)

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Re: Capture the Flag Maps

Post by Razgriz on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:44 pm

Anna wrote:If the map is too big, people will definitely not play it much, since it's such a bore playing huge maps. You have a hard time getting all the way to the flag and back, and it can be incredibly hard to find someone with the flag who's hiding (See Map11).

This is true, although lots of playtime =/= a good map. See; map05, 11, 13, 15, 16, 17, 22, 24, 26, 30, 32. a few of these maps are 'big boring maps' but they're really good or at least decent and do not get enough playtime.

But they don't see as much playtime as 01, 04, 08, 18, 20, 29, 31 or any other map people like to play in skullcrap priv. The only exception is 21, which is fun but competitively it's too big.

Anna wrote:Two, intersect the different routes of the map.

But map01 has oval shaped layout and map14 is a freakin straight line pretty much with one real exit and another exit that needs a trick or assistance to go through, both are pretty liked. So I'm not too sure about intersecting or different route would be that big of a difference.

Anna wrote:Three, don't give a base more than 4 entrances/exits, or make the base too small to defend.

Smart ctf map01 has four entrances in and five leading out (rocket jump-able exit), map02 has six ways to get in and four to get out, so pretty much you get the general trend here...However, most of the Smart ctf maps are better than some IDL maps and saying too many entrances is bad is not really that wise.

Also (addressing the OP) why Smart ctf doesn't get play through is because it is not easily accessible. It would probably get more playtime if the maps were added on at the end of the IDL wad, then people wouldn't have to shuffle from server to server to play what they want, but that's a bit of work I think.

Obviously 'good' is based on bias and experience. You hate 08, but I think it's fairly ok mainly because I know how to play on it despite my sketchy D there (Too many ways to get the flag? really?)
Dark Mirror wrote:Maps that utilize RJing really break a balance imo.
Maybe if you're a crap defender.

When you know how to play something, it becomes more fun. Learning how to run map12 in IDL was quite interesting, consequently I got a good idea on how to D there too! The only map that sucks is 06, and many people don't like it. You can reference This thread about map08 and read about how actually it's a good map (dewwws post).

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Re: Capture the Flag Maps

Post by Spirit Soldier on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:03 pm

I spent some time reading that thread, really a good argument presented on both sides, but I'm still going to agree with Fastidious.

As for smart ctf, there were a couple of scrims on it, it had its own pub AND priv nj servers; after these initial plays however, it fell to the wayside; IMO it has to do with the flashy-ness of it; i often got confused, on where the fuck i was going. Add this is with the overflow of the map and shit was only a little enjoyable for me. Also, the lack of maps may have something to do with it; 8 maps is nothing.

Maybe i'm a little stagnant in loving maps that are straightforward.

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Re: Capture the Flag Maps

Post by Razgriz on Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:43 pm

Probably, there is nothing really wrong with 08 in it's current rocket jumping state. If you look at it really, if there was no rocket jumping you would not score against a good team whether it is 3v3 or 8v8, you are not getting out and that's a fact. Nobody wants to play a scoreless map for 15 minutes, I don't and I'm sure you don't.

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